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Post by Togashi Moeru on Feb 26, 2014 19:37:53 GMT
IMPORTANT UPDATE:
Read all the way through. I have made more changes.
I want to thank Yatsuji, again, for having faith in me to run things around here.
I wanted to take the time to update people on how things are going to work:
I plan on keeping things pretty much the same as what Yatsuji had. With Kimiko and Yatsuji busy IRL, I'm appointing Arandaru to help me with story stuff. This means that he will have some moderator type privileges and responsibilities.
I have another person in mind I would like to add to help things along. When I get done handling that, I will post more about who else will be helping me.
EDIT: Scratch that. Kaiu Satomi will be joining Arandaru and I.
A few things:
1.) This is not EE1. There isn't going to be a large staff. The staff, is already bigger than I would like. But, I'm not going to remove anyone. Yatsuji, Kimiko, and Hatosenshi were the ones who got this started. I'm not going to oust them, because life got busy. I understand. Life is Life, and it obviously comes first. On the other hand, I don't think that every clan will need a moderator, at least for a while anyway. Once we get to a point where we have a large amount of people, we'll talk about adding more than what I have envisioned to start.
I may, ask people to be part of a group of players who will be part of the "Story Team". These people are people I have RP'd with, who could help with the story aspect of the game. It wouldn't be a moderator position. They would be people that I believe can help make the experience better for everyone.
2.) This is not EE1. There will be no Player Champions in this game. When I purchased the "Great Family Daimyo" position for myself, I started having talks with Yatsuji about it, because It would be hard to be the family daimyo, and not the champion. We came up with some ideas on how to make that work.
If you want to be the Family Daimyo of the family that normally sports the champion, I don't have a problem with that. But that does not mean that you will be the clan champion. We will find a work around. I have no problem with someone being "the Akodo Family Daimyo". Heck, I'd even give you the Hatamoto position alongside it for free.
In EE1, player champions were both very cool, and very frustrating. It was very cool, when you had a champ that was involved, and posting, and around. But when they weren't, it was frustrating. If you had a champion that you felt wasn't portraying the clan in the way that you thought they should be portrayed, it was frustrating.
It created power grabs. It created, the single most catastrophic event I have ever seen happen to a forum community. When one champion had been gone for a while, another person tried to sieze the opportunity to take it for themselves, and it fractured a community, and the person's actions ended up getting them banned. It was ugly. It was awful. It almost made me quit, and hang up the whole thing.
I'll not have that again.
Champions, work best when it is a representation of the clan as a whole, and truth be told, it would severely limit some of the things a character can do.
3.) Mandates: Expect new mandates soon. We will be "officially" putting the bow on the end of Winter Court Soon. From there, we have some plans in mind.
4.) Stories: If you come up with a killer story, don't be surprised if the story people decide that they liked it as a plot hook. If I do, expect to be rewarded for your story telling in terms of glory.
5.) Glory Shop: I have a few ideas for items I am going to add to the glory shop. I'm always interested in hearing what other people would like.
6.) Clan Application Process: This is gone. Just post your character sheet, and we'll get you moved into the right clan.
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Post by Asako Chisato on Feb 26, 2014 21:19:26 GMT
how about disad items? some glory shop items that -add- glory?
and I want to follow through on your logic for the champion decision. If the key detractor is power hungry players doing what the clan shouldn't do, then how can we also assume that power hungry players won't abuse the family daimyo position?
Its a gross oversimplification, I know, but your logic -has- to apply to any big movers as far as social position goes.
I advise removing the family daimyo distinction entirely.
Especially if the choice here is to let NPCs make the clan decisions instead of PCs. (breaks my heart actually)
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Post by Togashi Moeru on Feb 26, 2014 21:30:56 GMT
I'm looking into the items that add glory issue. I have had that happen as well, and should have it fixed *soonish* And, while there are problems that could arise at the family daimyo, level I am, at current, willing to see if the family daimyo position will have problems. But I will go on record as saying that if it has problems, if we have players who show that they cannot handle the idea of being a great family daimyo, I will remove the position, and no one, will be considered to be a great family daimyo, even if they have previously purchased the position. The biggest reason I could see removing the family daimyo position, is because there are a *finite* amount of those throughout the empire, and I want this to be just as fun for the guy who signs up in a few months from now, as it is for us now. If he signs up in a few months, there is a high probability that he wouldn't be able to *be* a great family daimyo. But, I'm not willing (yet) to just remove it. But, your point, and my thought about it, do leave me in a position, where I'm willing to hear more debate about it. Because, I do believe in the one "unwritten rule" of PBP RPing. DON'T. BE. A. DICK. And I hope, that we can all abide by that rule. Really, when you look at the rules that this, or any PBP forum have, they fall under that umbrella more times than not.
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Bayushi Satomi
Unwanted Betrothed
Scorpion Clan
Posts: 1,080| Likes: 322
Rings: Earth 4 * Fire: 5 *Air 3 * Water 1 * Void 3
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Post by Bayushi Satomi on Feb 26, 2014 22:26:29 GMT
@chisato I believe the main point about the champion is that while the guy/girl can be an excellent player of a clan champion and such, in the case a player buys the position and then, for a reason or another, just give up playing, it'll put the clan in an awkward position.
Let's say for instance, we have a PC champion in Crane clan but we don't have a PC champion in Scorpion. In a RP when the two should be interacting, how it would be? It can lead to endless frustration.
I really have mixed feelings about the idea, mainly because I have the conviction (created by experience) that the clan without a PC champion will be perceived as weaker, even when it's not always the truth. But, if all champs are NPC, with their respective representants (hatamotos, family daimyo, whatever) it'll sound natural.
This "greater clan authority", in the figure of a NPC, sounds better to me because permit that all the players of a given clan can decide his actions and decisions, not having to worry on how it would affect the champion's player fun or even, champion's life (what if a clan decides to kill his champion?). Other point is: most of the great clan champs have a relative easy access to the Empress, but I believe it can unbalance whatever plot we're trying to make here.
It can be an alien concept for you, Chisato, who already played a champion in EE1, but not for me, for instance. You know the successful side of the experience, I know the bad one. When I entered EE1 RP, Doji Yoshi our Crane Champ gave up playing (same week, actually), but never gave up the position (he specifically stated he would return someday). It took a bunch of months then he showed up and "granted me" the hatamoto position (I was the only Crane playing at the time) and disappeared forever. He never again responded our attempts to talk to him, to at least permit us to change the daimyo... When more people joined us and npoticed other clans had PC champs, it started a lot of useless internal discussions, attempts to adequate our storyline to his absence... well, a lot of things that frustrated us Crane players a lot (some of them even escalated to other things, but whatever, not the point here).
Nobody is saying it'll happen here, but I believe is better be safe than sorry...
I won't oppose if this "champion PC" would be able to log in everyday or at least, very frequently, have a balanced approach on what is "his character" story and what is "the champion" story, and mostly, remember his character is the clan leader, but he's not leader of the players' group. I have no doubt we have/will have excellent players here that can achieve this balance easily, however, but I'm afraid that a champion PC in a word of champions that are NPC can unbalance the game, at least in this early moment. Maybe in a later moment, with lots of players, this can be changed, why not?
About the family daimyo position, however, I don't have the same problem. This is not as embracing neither as complicated; an absence can be afforded in a way the absence of a PC champion cannot.
That's my opinion as player, I'd like to see family daimyo's thing working, it's a valid attempt, I only think they should cost WAY MORE than they cost now.
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Post by Asako Chisato on Feb 27, 2014 0:55:28 GMT
another item for consideration.
Please, remove the clan selection process. It takes out a great portion of player agency in creating their character. In another L5R game I play online, part of the setting was immediately following the khan's march on toshi ranbo. Its such a rich opportunity to play as a Unicorn in. I made my character to play in that setting in that role. Had I been told, 'sorry, please play in this clan instead' without getting a say other then a priority list, I would have been devastated. No other clan comes CLOSE to that rich opportunity.
Another reason it should be removed: Friends joining simultaneously, or friends joining another friend. People bring friends to online games. I'm sure its how we count on getting more members. "Come join our game, you can play with me! Accept that really cool shugenja/yojimbo idea we had only works so far as the staff says its ok for you to be in my clan."
Why not let people pick their own clan?
My real life example of how this has affected me (though we are happy with how things turned out): My girlfriend and I were looking for something that we could do together, then get saddled into different clans. "But Senshi, you two CAN play together in different clans."
I think we can all agree that it is completely different then having the opportunity to play closely together and cooperatively in the same clan.
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Post by Togashi Moeru on Feb 27, 2014 1:52:15 GMT
I agree.
Dragon was not my first choice.
I'm going to be looking into that as well.
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Post by Togashi Moeru on Mar 18, 2014 18:36:33 GMT
It's been a busy week or so IRL for me. I went into contract to buy a house. We had one last crazy snow storm. This weekend, I had birthdays, and a birth, and a second job to tend to.
And, in the process, I have been missing around here.
And I've realized, that it's frustrating some people.
And for that, I apologize. I thought, that by putting myself, and Satomi, and Arandaru together, we could keep this thing going, and it'd work. I thought, based on Admining the first board, that I would be able to admin it this go around, and it wouldn't be hard.
Well, the problem lies in trying to be a storyteller, and admining, and trying to keep up with life, and it's leaving some people with the feeling that this place is getting the short end of the stick.
And I apologize if you feel that way.
The way I see it, there are a couple of options.
1.) I stay on, with Satomi, and Arandaru, and we scale back the pace. We take it a little slower. 2.) I step down, someone else comes in, or not.
I don't want this place to die. I love the idea for the story, but I know that it's frustrating people that things aren't moving as fast as they would like, and I know that on separate occasions, both Satomi, and Arandaru have felt frustrated that they aren't getting as much support as they would like.
And to the both of you, I apologize. I wanted this to work. And I think it can. But I'm not sure how to keep it going, and get everything done that I have to do IRL, at the current pace.
If people want this place to continue, and I think there are people that do, I'd like to have a conversation about making that happen. Whether that's with me, or with someone else running it.
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Post by Asako Chisato on Mar 18, 2014 19:45:29 GMT
Sorry for my frustrations, I think we can continue at a slower pace, just fine. perhaps gms should consider picking up plots from other gms to help carry some of the slack? not leave one thread under one person's responsibility? I don't know if this will help, but I can understand fully your situation taking your priority.
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Moto Arandaru
Unicorn Clan
Posts: 199| Likes: 103
In Kyuden Seppun, eager to find a way to save the Empire!
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Post by Moto Arandaru on Mar 18, 2014 19:49:50 GMT
In turn I wish to offer my apologies as well from all the players in this forum. My position as a storyteller is to provide the proper means of interaction in order to involve the players into the current storyline. At the moment, the spotlight shines over the Yasuki lands and thus it has been decided that the players will have their chance of associating themselves with any plot (including theirs) that may come up with. Since then I've been hawking over the players watching as the were unfolded their character in order to interact should it be needed. However, when the time came, a serious personal matter (in these last 4 days) has demanded that I remained away from my duties in here. I apologize once more.
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Moto Arandaru
Unicorn Clan
Posts: 199| Likes: 103
In Kyuden Seppun, eager to find a way to save the Empire!
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Post by Moto Arandaru on Mar 18, 2014 19:56:14 GMT
Sorry for my frustrations, I think we can continue at a slower pace, just fine. perhaps gms should consider picking up plots from other gms to help carry some of the slack? not leave one thread under one person's responsibility? I don't know if this will help, but I can understand fully your situation taking your priority. Since there are 3 of us, 2 gms and an administrator one, I assume you're referring to me quite directly. I'll think about it. Thank you for your notice.
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Bayushi Satomi
Unwanted Betrothed
Scorpion Clan
Posts: 1,080| Likes: 322
Rings: Earth 4 * Fire: 5 *Air 3 * Water 1 * Void 3
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Post by Bayushi Satomi on Mar 19, 2014 2:25:27 GMT
If I gave you false expectations about my position, abilities or else, I truly and humbly apologize. I am a player and also help in the story team, and I believe, a do Moeru, I could help with the storytelling, with ideas, but I am aware of my limitations, and how RL is a bitch sometimes. I have a business, some paralell projects running at the same time along my work, a blog and family, friends, pets, guests at home, a travel-to-be etc, as everyone else. I exult when you guys do an awesome thing in the game, as I exult when someone tell us about a new project, a release, exciting trips, new jobs, a new house, a real achievement in the real life. But sometimes, I am a hag. I vent my frustrations when I feel frustrated. When I think things can be better, when I think my patience is over, and though I always try to do it in a respectful way, I know it hurts to receive a criticism or an unexpected venting from someone, when your personal life is upside down (in good but busy ways). That's why Moeru, I am deeply sorry for some things I wrote you last night.
I know you from the old forum and I respect you a lot. We shared ideas and expectations about this forum, and I miss reading your RP posts (your non RP posts aren't as nice, sorry ), and playing a thread or two with you.
Now, we have some big threads with lots of NPC and it will probably repeat in the future. The premisse of the game is to be a character that affects Rokugan as does people as the Shogun, the Empress and the like. So, it's natural that, one time or another, we are interacting with those guys. Other minor characters will appear, to help push the story, or even when requested by the players. But, if it becomes to taxing to the reduced story team to manage it, maybe we need to rethink some strategies about having those NPCs around. I believe I talk in the name of the "staff" when I ask you guys comprehension not only in the question of the RL life issues everyone has and that can make us AFK sometimes, but also, that you are totally free to interact with each other, to develop your own agendas through plots, posts and threads, to open threads and invite people to play with you. Thus helping to make a bit less taxing, our funny but sometimes hard, job of keeping everyone involved, playing, and happy. If you have doubts on how it can be made, we are here to be reached by PM (or else) and we'll love to help to make your idea cohesive with the main story. We never wished to have stories totally NPC-centric, in fact, the intention is having as many stories created by the players as possible, connected with the main plot and forming a big picture. We in fact wish to pick some good ideas to use in the story. We failed in not being able to keep a good pace, and I'm sorry for being the responsible to push a so ambitious first arc in this new phase. But we'd love to keep it a good entertainment for everyone (including ourselves).
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Post by sophie on Mar 19, 2014 19:36:53 GMT
Huh. I think I'm not the one to speak, since I didn't write a single post before, BUT... Actually, I'd prefer a slower pace. It might sound selfish, but I like to take things slow. I didn't even manage to read enough threads to "get the hang of what's going on" yet. I'm in a different time zone. If I participate in a thread, I won't be able to write answers very fast, since I'll be sleeping when you write yours (and vice versa) And it'll also take a while or two to think before writing a post in a RP thread, ofc. So I don't mind slower pace, since I still didn't even catch up to this pace. Another thing. Just a little one. Don't pay attention if my proposition is inappropriate I am actually more a GM than a player (I wish it was different!). I'm not really experienced with PBP. Actually, I'm close to zero experience I played mostly table-top games, almost always as a GM, and my best part are the NPC's and climate, so they say. So, if you find yourself again in a situation like this one (I hope you won't!) - not much time, RL kicking you, and not enough people to help, and if you don't mind taking in someone totally from outside - well, consider me
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Post by tsuruchi kasumi on Apr 1, 2014 6:34:03 GMT
I can understand the issues, as I've been there and done that. I'm also in a different timezone than most I think (I'm on CET), but having played PBeM and PbPs for almost 15 years now, mostly with people in other timezones, that's not a big problem. I also think, looking at the different threads here, that most people will be able to run their own plots and just need a little guidance now and then (a PM with some information they might need). For me as newbie on this forum I just need some guidance to connect to the main plot(s). I've had this situation in Star Trek Play-by-email games, where the GM (the captain) sent the department heads (including myself) a mail OOC with all the stuff the departments had to do. If I had other players in the department, I would give them pieces of that so they could write their posts, and if I didn't, I kept the mail and over the course of the next weeks I would write posts with my character (and some NPCs) finding stuff out. We might not be able to use this method here in all plots, but it might relax the burden on the GM team if we as players take over some of that job. The GMs will have to trust us that we won't abuse this, but seeing the quality of the posts, I don't think that's going to be a problem. Last thing: if people want to meet my character, just PM me. I've chosen to be an emerald magistrate because that gives me the opportunity to be all over the empire and poke my nose in all sorts of things
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Post by Asako Chisato on Apr 7, 2014 18:54:00 GMT
another wishlist item... can we get the school ikoma shadow added? if people want to play as a shadow, should they take ikoma bard or take akodo bushi?
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Bayushi Satomi
Unwanted Betrothed
Scorpion Clan
Posts: 1,080| Likes: 322
Rings: Earth 4 * Fire: 5 *Air 3 * Water 1 * Void 3
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Post by Bayushi Satomi on Apr 7, 2014 19:57:51 GMT
That's a thing that needs to wait Moeru to get resolved, I guess. He, and the old admin Otomo are the only that can add things in the glory shop (or change anything, or assign people to their clans, or do anything that involves the admin panel). I would advice to wait until the Ikoma Shadow is available (since it can be or not added) or in order to start playing as soon as possible, to choose any other available school and play it as it is. I won't advice to assume that one school (either Ikoma bard or Akodo bushi) englobes the special training of an Ikoma Shadow, however.
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